Greg
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Posts: 63 
CotN Connection: Pastor of The Point Church, San Jose, CA
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Post by Greg on Sept 19, 2017 1:51:44 GMT -5
It's a fine sermon. But the one line that I've been thinking about was at 58:55.
"...attendance wasn't where it was before I came, due to the simple fact of your pastor's gender."
Declining attendance is never simple. Its almost always a combination of factors including
- sermons that don't connect with the audience
- the condition former pastors leave the church in
- the average age of those in attendance
- a lack of excellence in systems
- undeveloped leadership skills
- etc...
Maybe in this case it's different. The only reason I doubt it's only a gender issue is because I doubt any church would be growing at this point with any male leading it who had never pastored a church before, much less one like Paznaz. This is the church that broke Steve Green who I considered our best pastor in that era.
I do think it will grow, but that is a topic for another day...
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Jim Bentley
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CotN Connection: Elder / Senior Pastor
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Post by Jim Bentley on Sept 19, 2017 22:20:05 GMT -5
I took a time of staying away on purpose so that this doesn't become like the .com for me (blood pressure rising....lol)...But Greg, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Your points are right on. I don't think gender has one thing to do with the reason for the decline and it was pretty bold of her to make that statement so strongly (IMO). When this entire discussion first hit .com, I stayed out. But the bottom line is that had her resume been replaced with a male name, I don't believe that male would have been considered for the position. I never understood why they would have called someone with zero senior pastor experience??? Anyway, just a few thoughts. Thanks for sharing the sermon.
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Cam Pence
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Posts: 35
CotN Connection: Ordained Elder
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Post by Cam Pence on Sept 20, 2017 21:36:07 GMT -5
I took a time of staying away on purpose so that this doesn't become like the .com for me (blood pressure rising....lol)...But Greg, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Your points are right on. I don't think gender has one thing to do with the reason for the decline and it was pretty bold of her to make that statement so strongly (IMO). When this entire discussion first hit .com, I stayed out. But the bottom line is that had her resume been replaced with a male name, I don't believe that male would have been considered for the position. I never understood why they would have called someone with zero senior pastor experience??? Anyway, just a few thoughts. Thanks for sharing the sermon. Went to school with TB and know her fairly well. A simple Google search would have shown that saying she has zero pastoral experience is demonstrably false. |
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Jim Bentley
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Posts: 37
CotN Connection: Elder / Senior Pastor
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Post by Jim Bentley on Sept 20, 2017 23:06:12 GMT -5
I took a time of staying away on purpose so that this doesn't become like the .com for me (blood pressure rising....lol)...But Greg, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Your points are right on. I don't think gender has one thing to do with the reason for the decline and it was pretty bold of her to make that statement so strongly (IMO). When this entire discussion first hit .com, I stayed out. But the bottom line is that had her resume been replaced with a male name, I don't believe that male would have been considered for the position. I never understood why they would have called someone with zero senior pastor experience??? Anyway, just a few thoughts. Thanks for sharing the sermon. Went to school with TB and know her fairly well. A simple Google search would have shown that saying she has zero pastoral experience is demonstrably false. Cam...I never said zero pastoral experience...I said zero SENIOR pastor experience. Has she been a senior pastor somewhere that I have missed? If so, let me know and I will stand corrected. I'm not commenting on her preaching ability or anything about her at all. I also pray for her success. I am only saying that in matching resumes with a male, I'm not so sure that the position goes to a male based on lack of experience. But I may be totally incorrect. I was also agreeing with Greg that her statement "...attendance wasn't where it was before I came, due to the simple fact of your pastor's gender" is a very short sighted statement (IMHO) (not Greg's words). |
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Greg
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Posts: 63
CotN Connection: Pastor of The Point Church, San Jose, CA
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Post by Greg on Sept 20, 2017 23:21:10 GMT -5
I am so sorry you went to school with TB. I had acne but that's not life threatening.
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Greg
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Posts: 63
CotN Connection: Pastor of The Point Church, San Jose, CA
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Post by Greg on Sept 20, 2017 23:39:07 GMT -5
Does anybody know what percentage of churches experience a declining average worship attendance each year? On our district my guess is it's about 80%. So a church in decline on our district is the new normal. Is it different on your district?
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Greg
New Member
Posts: 63
CotN Connection: Pastor of The Point Church, San Jose, CA
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Post by Greg on Sept 20, 2017 23:51:01 GMT -5
I took a time of staying away on purpose so that this doesn't become like the .com for me (blood pressure rising....lol)...But Greg, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Your points are right on. I don't think gender has one thing to do with the reason for the decline and it was pretty bold of her to make that statement so strongly (IMO). When this entire discussion first hit .com, I stayed out. But the bottom line is that had her resume been replaced with a male name, I don't believe that male would have been considered for the position. I never understood why they would have called someone with zero senior pastor experience??? Anyway, just a few thoughts. Thanks for sharing the sermon. Went to school with TB and know her fairly well. A simple Google search would have shown that saying she has zero pastoral experience is demonstrably false. Cam, thanks for chiming in. I appreciate you commenting. |
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Post by Kevin Wright on Sept 21, 2017 9:01:56 GMT -5
"...attendance wasn't where it was before I came, due to the simple fact of your pastor's gender." I call that playing the gender card. |
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Post by Kevin Wright on Sept 21, 2017 9:09:45 GMT -5
While I don't know anything about PazNaz or Tara Beth's history, I agree that there are many things that could have attributed to the declining attendance. It would be interesting to know the history behind the church statistics. Out of curiosity, I ran the stats:  The thing I found interesting is the rise in membership in the 80's & 90's while also a experiencing a major drop in attendance during this same period. |
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Post by Kevin Wright on Sept 21, 2017 9:16:17 GMT -5
Does anybody know what percentage of churches experience a declining average worship attendance each year? On our district my guess is it's about 80%. So a church in decline on our district is the new normal. Is it different on your district? My district shows a steady decline. I think this is probably typical in the US.  |
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Cam Pence
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Posts: 35
CotN Connection: Ordained Elder
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Post by Cam Pence on Sept 21, 2017 14:53:48 GMT -5
Went to school with TB and know her fairly well. A simple Google search would have shown that saying she has zero pastoral experience is demonstrably false. Cam...I never said zero pastoral experience...I said zero SENIOR pastor experience. Has she been a senior pastor somewhere that I have missed? If so, let me know and I will stand corrected. I'm not commenting on her preaching ability or anything about her at all. I also pray for her success. I am only saying that in matching resumes with a male, I'm not so sure that the position goes to a male based on lack of experience. But I may be totally incorrect. I was also agreeing with Greg that her statement "...attendance wasn't where it was before I came, due to the simple fact of your pastor's gender" is a very short sighted statement (IMHO) (not Greg's words). Apologies, my friend. I misread. |
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Greg Farra
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Posts: 21
CotN Connection: Associate Pastor, Reynoldsburg COTN
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Post by Greg Farra on Sept 21, 2017 20:57:17 GMT -5
On a side note, she was youth pastor in New York for my current pastor, Dennis King. The guy must know how to pick associates, eh?
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Greg
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Posts: 63
CotN Connection: Pastor of The Point Church, San Jose, CA
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Post by Greg on Sept 22, 2017 9:40:57 GMT -5
While I don't know anything about PazNaz or Tara Beth's history, I agree that there are many things that could have attributed to the declining attendance. It would be interesting to know the history behind the church statistics. Out of curiosity, I ran the stats: View AttachmentThe thing I found interesting is the rise in membership in the 80's & 90's while also a experiencing a major drop in attendance during this same period. The reported statistics for Paznaz, and many churches on the West Coast including mine, have nothing to do with reality. The reason being that property prices are insane so new congregations (mostly non-English-speaking Nazarenes) use existing buildings and the "owner" of the building counts the other's attendance as their own. Probably the last real (for lack of a better word) statistic for them was 1998 or 99. So if you see a sudden jump or decrease in numbers it's probably because a new congregation came or left. |
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Post by Emiko Cothran on Sept 26, 2017 21:48:54 GMT -5
If no one can be called as a SENIOR pastor without previous experience as a SENIOR pastor, then how does anyone EVER become a senior pastor?
It seems that at some point people who have been youth pastor or associate pastor or some other non-senior pastor expirince will have to be given a chance or there can be no new senior pastors
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Marsha Lynn
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Posts: 21 
CotN Connection: Member since 1966.
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Post by Marsha Lynn on Sept 27, 2017 6:46:01 GMT -5
If no one can be called as a SENIOR pastor without previous experience as a SENIOR pastor, then how does anyone EVER become a senior pastor? Generally, they start at a smaller church and pick up experience and a track record there before moving to a large congregation like PazNaz. |
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Greg
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Posts: 63
CotN Connection: Pastor of The Point Church, San Jose, CA
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Post by Greg on Sept 27, 2017 9:05:12 GMT -5
If no one can be called as a SENIOR pastor without previous experience as a SENIOR pastor, then how does anyone EVER become a senior pastor? It seems that at some point people who have been youth pastor or associate pastor or some other non-senior pastor experience will have to be given a chance or there can be no new senior pastors Senior Pastor is a confusing term. The title itself seems to imply that there are other pastors on staff that have less authority than the senior pastor. But it also describes the pastor who is the only "official" pastor at a church. So basically you can become a Senior Pastor when you are the best option for a church, even if that church is so small that the only other member is your wife. For someone who is called and is working towards the required education, there is always a place they could serve as a senior pastor. |
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Jim Bentley
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CotN Connection: Elder / Senior Pastor
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Post by Jim Bentley on Sept 27, 2017 9:42:27 GMT -5
If no one can be called as a SENIOR pastor without previous experience as a SENIOR pastor, then how does anyone EVER become a senior pastor? It seems that at some point people who have been youth pastor or associate pastor or some other non-senior pastor expirince will have to be given a chance or there can be no new senior pastors Emiko...I think Marsha and Greg both answered differently, but well. My reference was certainly more along the lines of Marsha's answer. In the secular world, a person doesn't go from being a mid-level manager to being the CEO of a top tier corporation. Typically, those CEO's have had CEO experience at a smaller company. The same is the case in church life. Big churches just don't hire non experienced pastors to take the helm of the ship. As a youth pastor or other associate with no senior pastor experience, you take a Senior pastorate position of a small congregation in order to get your feet wet in the "how to" of being the Senior Pastor. In this case, that is exactly why I said what i did. Again, it is not a cut in any way of Tara Beth. I'm sure she is a great pastor. But, in my opinion, had the same exact resume been handed to that board - the board of one of the bigger churches in the COtN - but it had been a male, most likely that male would have never even gotten an interview, let alone the position. But then to add fuel to the fire, she makes the comment that she did and uses the gender card to blame the lost of attendee's on the fact that she is a female. But the simple fact is, it is most likely her lack of experience as a Senior Pastor. Let me edit to add - Just to be clear, I took this small church just less then 3 years ago. When I took it, there is no way that any large church should have or would have looked at my resume. And that is even with all of the secular corporate upper management experience along with associate pastor experience that I had. And they would have been correct in that decision. I was not ready in any shape or form to run a church like PAZNAZ (or any bigger church on the district that I am on). I say all of that to make it clear that my comments are not gender biased. |
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A. Lucas Finch
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Posts: 55
CotN Connection: Licensed Minister, Rocky Mountain District NYI President, NNU Student
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Post by A. Lucas Finch on Sept 27, 2017 9:59:19 GMT -5
On the senior pastor question, having now served as an associate for two different senior pastors at two different locations, I have some thoughts. I will not specify which is which. Both of the men I worked for were and continue to be wonderful men of God, and both were/are well loved by their local churches (though they both certainly dealt with some challenges as well). Prior to serving as senior pastors, one had been an associate pastor himself, whereas the other has only ever been a senior pastor. Of the two, working for the one with associate experience was a much more collaborative and empowering experience for me. There is not really any way to enforce it, but personally I do not think a senior pastor should lead a church large enough and with the need to employ associates unless he o she has worked in an associate role himself or herself. (Of course, there are always contextual situations that could get me to change my mind, so this is not a hard and fast rule for me.) I suspect that someone with associate experience working for a lead pastor who included that person as a true team member and worked with him or her to develop his or her skills will serve better as a senior pastor of a large church than someone who only has experience as a senior pastor of a small church.
I say that to highlight this: Do not assume that just because TB does not have senior pastor experience that she was not well-equipped to lead PazNaz. Frankly, she was probably better equipped to do so than any pastor from my district (and many other small church pastors, too).
So, my question for you men accusing her of playing the gender card: How do you know that she doesn't know that what she says is accurate? Maybe she has met with former parishioners who have told her they no longer attend because their lead pastor is a woman? Maybe she has been told by current parishioners that they have heard from former parishioners that the reason they no longer attend is because she is a woman? Why do you automatically assume that because she is a woman highlighting the challenges of women in leadership she is playing the "gender card"? Maybe, just maybe, what she said is accurate?
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Jim Bentley
New Member
Posts: 37
CotN Connection: Elder / Senior Pastor
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Post by Jim Bentley on Sept 27, 2017 10:13:49 GMT -5
So, my question for you men accusing her of playing the gender card: How do you know that she doesn't know that what she says is accurate? Maybe she has met with former parishioners who have told her they no longer attend because their lead pastor is a woman? Maybe she has been told by current parishioners that they have heard from former parishioners that the reason they no longer attend is because she is a woman? Why do you automatically assume that because she is a woman highlighting the challenges of women in leadership she is playing the "gender card"? Maybe, just maybe, what she said is accurate? A good question Lucas...and honestly, we don't know for certain! That's why I said "in my opinion". But seriously, we are talking about Pasadena, CA, an area that I believe would be much more open to a female Senior Pastor...not somewhere in the deep south that would for sure be closed off to it. I don't care how much training you have had as an associate, it is a bad step to go from associate pastor to Senior/Lead Pastor of a large church with zero experience in that position. The dynamics are just too different. Also, her statement was a definitive, one reason comment. She gave no room at all for any other possibilities. She said - "...attendance wasn't where it was before I came, due to the simple fact of your pastor's gender." and you know as well as I do that there is no way that everyone who has left did so simply because she is a female. I'm not saying that there weren't possibly some....but all? Like i said, I think it's short sighted of her (and lacking experience) to believe that the lost of attendees is simply because of her gender. |
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A. Lucas Finch
New Member
Posts: 55
CotN Connection: Licensed Minister, Rocky Mountain District NYI President, NNU Student
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Post by A. Lucas Finch on Sept 27, 2017 10:39:56 GMT -5
So, my question for you men accusing her of playing the gender card: How do you know that she doesn't know that what she says is accurate? Maybe she has met with former parishioners who have told her they no longer attend because their lead pastor is a woman? Maybe she has been told by current parishioners that they have heard from former parishioners that the reason they no longer attend is because she is a woman? Why do you automatically assume that because she is a woman highlighting the challenges of women in leadership she is playing the "gender card"? Maybe, just maybe, what she said is accurate? I don't care how much training you have had as an associate, it is a bad step to go from associate pastor to Senior/Lead Pastor of a large church with zero experience in that position. The dynamics are just too different. And I contend that being on staff at a large church better prepares a person for the dynamics of a large church than being a lead pastor at a small church. To be clear, this is not an attack on small churches or their pastors at all. My hope is that I will be able to remain on my district for my whole life, and we are made up of small churches here. A church becomes "large" when it passes 100 in average attendance. But I am certain that if and when God calls me to be a lead pastor, my experience serving as an associate will better equip me for leading staff than a potential lead pastor who has never served in that role. Frankly, though, I reject the paradigm of "upper mobility" that y'all are trying to present, anyway. A person shouldn't have a goal of becoming a lead pastor of a large church and thus take stepping stones to get there, whether or not that includes serving as an associate pastor, lead pastor of a small church, or whatever else. Whenever we have a "stepping stone" mentality, we risk always looking on to the next thing rather than giving our all to where we are currently at. I have approached every position that I have had with a church, whether volunteer or staff, as if that is what I will be doing when I retire. If and when God calls me to something else, great! In that something else, I anticipate applying the experiences that I have gained from whatever came previously. But I'm not looking to move on. I'm looking to do whatever I can for the Kingdom to the best of my ability for as long as I am allowed to do it in that role. But . . . that is probably a different conversation. It stems from what y'all are assuming about TB, but it is different. At the DOTCOM, when TB was announced, there were comparisons made between her and Jackie Robinson. For African-Americans to be able to find a real place in the MLB, it would take someone special to lead the way. Watching the Ken Burns PBS Baseball documentary over and over (unfortunately, it is not currently available for streaming on any platform that I am aware of without actually buying it, but it used to be on Netflix and then Amazon Prime), I was struck by how racist the MLB really was and what a significant role Jackie Robinson played. You may think that Pasadena is a progressive location, and certainly compared to some it is. However, I would interject that the COTN has a lot of latent misogyny. We put a good face forward, insisting that women can serve in any role of leadership, but do we really believe this on a deep, institutional level? I suspect that there are a lot more people against women in lead pastor roles than we like to admit. We might say, "If nobody else steps forward, then I guess I'll deal with it", but I suspect that the vast majority of Nazarenes would, all else being equal, prefer a man as lead pastor. And that's a problem. But go ahead. Accuse of her playing the "gender card". [sarcasm]That's a great way to overcome the challenging role that women have finding leadership roles in our denomination.[/sarcasm] I pray that just as Jackie Robinson did, Tara Beth will push forward, maintain her dignity, and become a great example of the role that women in leadership can and should play in the Church of the Nazarene. |
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Post by Susan Unger on Sept 27, 2017 21:58:33 GMT -5
On the senior pastor question, having now served as an associate for two different senior pastors at two different locations, I have some thoughts. I will not specify which is which. Both of the men I worked for were and continue to be wonderful men of God, and both were/are well loved by their local churches (though they both certainly dealt with some challenges as well). Prior to serving as senior pastors, one had been an associate pastor himself, whereas the other has only ever been a senior pastor. Of the two, working for the one with associate experience was a much more collaborative and empowering experience for me. There is not really any way to enforce it, but personally I do not think a senior pastor should lead a church large enough and with the need to employ associates unless he o she has worked in an associate role himself or herself. (Of course, there are always contextual situations that could get me to change my mind, so this is not a hard and fast rule for me.) I suspect that someone with associate experience working for a lead pastor who included that person as a true team member and worked with him or her to develop his or her skills will serve better as a senior pastor of a large church than someone who only has experience as a senior pastor of a small church. I say that to highlight this: Do not assume that just because TB does not have senior pastor experience that she was not well-equipped to lead PazNaz. Frankly, she was probably better equipped to do so than any pastor from my district (and many other small church pastors, too). So, my question for you men accusing her of playing the gender card: How do you know that she doesn't know that what she says is accurate? Maybe she has met with former parishioners who have told her they no longer attend because their lead pastor is a woman? Maybe she has been told by current parishioners that they have heard from former parishioners that the reason they no longer attend is because she is a woman? Why do you automatically assume that because she is a woman highlighting the challenges of women in leadership she is playing the "gender card"? Maybe, just maybe, what she said is accurate? Amen to both points ~ |
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Post by Susan Unger on Sept 27, 2017 22:02:27 GMT -5
I don't care how much training you have had as an associate, it is a bad step to go from associate pastor to Senior/Lead Pastor of a large church with zero experience in that position. The dynamics are just too different. And I contend that being on staff at a large church better prepares a person for the dynamics of a large church than being a lead pastor at a small church. To be clear, this is not an attack on small churches or their pastors at all. My hope is that I will be able to remain on my district for my whole life, and we are made up of small churches here. A church becomes "large" when it passes 100 in average attendance. But I am certain that if and when God calls me to be a lead pastor, my experience serving as an associate will better equip me for leading staff than a potential lead pastor who has never served in that role. Frankly, though, I reject the paradigm of "upper mobility" that y'all are trying to present, anyway. A person shouldn't have a goal of becoming a lead pastor of a large church and thus take stepping stones to get there, whether or not that includes serving as an associate pastor, lead pastor of a small church, or whatever else. Whenever we have a "stepping stone" mentality, we risk always looking on to the next thing rather than giving our all to where we are currently at. I have approached every position that I have had with a church, whether volunteer or staff, as if that is what I will be doing when I retire. If and when God calls me to something else, great! In that something else, I anticipate applying the experiences that I have gained from whatever came previously. But I'm not looking to move on. I'm looking to do whatever I can for the Kingdom to the best of my ability for as long as I am allowed to do it in that role. But . . . that is probably a different conversation. It stems from what y'all are assuming about TB, but it is different. At the DOTCOM, when TB was announced, there were comparisons made between her and Jackie Robinson. For African-Americans to be able to find a real place in the MLB, it would take someone special to lead the way. Watching the Ken Burns PBS Baseball documentary over and over (unfortunately, it is not currently available for streaming on any platform that I am aware of without actually buying it, but it used to be on Netflix and then Amazon Prime), I was struck by how racist the MLB really was and what a significant role Jackie Robinson played. You may think that Pasadena is a progressive location, and certainly compared to some it is. However, I would interject that the COTN has a lot of latent misogyny. We put a good face forward, insisting that women can serve in any role of leadership, but do we really believe this on a deep, institutional level? I suspect that there are a lot more people against women in lead pastor roles than we like to admit. We might say, "If nobody else steps forward, then I guess I'll deal with it", but I suspect that the vast majority of Nazarenes would, all else being equal, prefer a man as lead pastor. And that's a problem. But go ahead. Accuse of her playing the "gender card". [sarcasm]That's a great way to overcome the challenging role that women have finding leadership roles in our denomination.[/sarcasm] I pray that just as Jackie Robinson did, Tara Beth will push forward, maintain her dignity, and become a great example of the role that women in leadership can and should play in the Church of the Nazarene. Amen and Amen ~ another post that I totally agree with you on [even though we can't agree on baseball teams this year  ] |
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Post by Emiko Cothran on Sept 28, 2017 11:02:33 GMT -5
So, Jim, are you suggesting that this Southern CA church is doing... Something like "affirmative action"?
Like, you think maybe the local authorities have decided that since women have such a difficult time getting into leadership roles in the Denomination, and since they usually have more hurtles and road blocks to jump and overcome, that this particular church in this particular area has decided, "given two equally qualified candidates, we will choose the woman based on her gender, in order to give the underdog a leg up"?
I am not sure I am actually opposed to that.
Then again if my daughter was not allowed a college grant because she is not an ethnic minority, and another equally poor child, from an equally poor background for as many generations as I have knowledge, with an equally good academic record, was prefferencily given the grant because they were a minority, I would be very upset....
Because, while in theory I support equalizing measures to make up for difficulties and hurdles your race or gender has put in your way for generations (and are in many places are still in effect)... If it was my own child being denied her only shot at an education... Well, then it's not theory, it's personal. And when it is my OWN child I want her to have an equal shot at college, even if I know her parents and grandparents never had to be slaves or give up their seats on a bus, or get shot for wearing the wrong kind of jacket....
So it's easy for me (a woman) to say "trying to level the playing field is not necessarily a bad thing"
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Greg
New Member
Posts: 63
CotN Connection: Pastor of The Point Church, San Jose, CA
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Post by Greg on Sept 28, 2017 11:28:47 GMT -5
I pray that just as Jackie Robinson did, Tara Beth will push forward, maintain her dignity, and become a great example of the role that women in leadership can and should play in the Church of the Nazarene. This is exactly what I am hoping and think will happen. But unlike Jackie Robinson, she only has potential at this point. Not a track record. |
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Post by Dale Schaeffer on Sept 28, 2017 23:59:59 GMT -5
It's a fine sermon. But the one line that I've been thinking about was at 58:55. "...attendance wasn't where it was before I came, due to the simple fact of your pastor's gender." Declining attendance is never simple. Its almost always a combination of factors including - sermons that don't connect with the audience - the condition former pastors leave the church in - the average age of those in attendance - a lack of excellence in systems - undeveloped leadership skills - etc... Maybe in this case it's different. The only reason I doubt it's only a gender issue is because I doubt any church would be growing at this point with any male leading it who had never pastored a church before, much less one like Paznaz. This is the church that broke Steve Green who I considered our best pastor in that era. I do think it will grow, but that is a topic for another day... - I would agree that all of the above factors are factors in weekend attendance and church growth. That said, let's look beyond weekend attendance at the metrics at PazNaz. Discipleship attendance up nearly 300 people. RAP up around $100k. Positive membership growth (although slowed compared to the history of the church). If it were primarily a leadership challenge both discipleship and worship would likely show a slide, and it would not be uncommon to see giving dip as well. The number one factor in weekend attendance is connection with the Sr. Pastor (LifeWay research, Barna and Pew all verify this). While it would require additional work to determine if gender of the Sr. Pastor is the primary reason for decreasing weekend attendance, it is at least a highly likely factor given the other metrics. |
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Greg
New Member
Posts: 63
CotN Connection: Pastor of The Point Church, San Jose, CA
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Post by Greg on Sept 29, 2017 1:52:32 GMT -5
Hey Dale! Thanks for commenting. I listened to the first part of your sermon from last Sunday. Your set is outstanding. Very visually engaging.
Another factor that sends people elsewhere is culture. It took Steve Green several years to adapt to a socal mindset. The pastors that followed him never did. It took me several years, maybe 3, to begin to see how maladapted I was when I arrived here. So I think being foreign to the socal culture can be included in the reasons it takes a bit to begin to get traction.
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Greg
New Member
Posts: 63
CotN Connection: Pastor of The Point Church, San Jose, CA
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Post by Greg on Sept 29, 2017 10:58:37 GMT -5
Generally you can't do much about your gender. But you can do a lot about everything else. So why focus on what you can't change and instead get serious and focused on what you can. Just as no one can say that she's only gotten this far because of her gender, the leader she is becoming cannot be contained because of her gender. Great leaders prove themselves by overcoming obstacles, even gender.
For a brief moment in her sermon she identified herself and her church as a victim of it. If the future depends on the one thing that can't be changed, her leadership is doomed.
I am hopeful she will continue to move past her gender speedbumps and become the visionary and hope filled leader her church needs.
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Post by Gina Stevenson on Sept 29, 2017 16:34:06 GMT -5
And hope she reads such commentary to realize she's fallen into something she may want to depart from ASAP
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Post by Susan Unger on Sept 29, 2017 23:55:25 GMT -5
And hope she reads such commentary to realize she's fallen into something she may want to depart from ASAP Yup!!! |
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Post by Dale Schaeffer on Sept 30, 2017 1:31:19 GMT -5
Hey Dale! Thanks for commenting. I listened to the first part of your sermon from last Sunday. Your set is outstanding. Very visually engaging. Another factor that sends people elsewhere is culture. It took Steve Green several years to adapt to a socal mindset. The pastors that followed him never did. It took me several years, maybe 3, to begin to see how maladapted I was when I arrived here. So I think being foreign to the socal culture can be included in the reasons it takes a bit to begin to get traction. Also, I failed to mention in my first comment...TaraBeth killed this sermon. Great teaching on Matthew 6:25-34. |
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