Embracing Exile

[Doug Kitchen]

Is anyone else using Embracing Exile (Scott Daniels)?

We purchased the whole package.  I have read most of the book but haven't started looking through the resources yet.

So far, I would highly recommend the book.

I'll be leading it during sunday school hour starting next week.

I will try to post a few of the salient points and I think some of the chapters/concepts that my class will have trouble with.

Here's one:

Scott states that we all have a narrative (handed down to us or that we choose).  I hadn't thought about that.

What was the narrative that you grew up with?

What narrative have you chosen?

Some of you may have encountered this way of thinking but it's a little new to me.  He about our narrative becoming our "liturgy" and the job of the church to reform/replace it with the liturgy.

I am probably misstating/mis-summarizing so feel free to fill me in.  I have to reread this chapter in particular to be sure I guide the discussion well.  I don't think it is original to Dr Daniels so perhaps you have read related thoughts and could share your perspective.



Doug

[Greg]

I'm glad to hear that you like Scott Daniel's writing. I used to listen to all of his sermons so I first came across those ideas, I don't remember how long ago, maybe five years plus? I think the word "narrative" is a very common-contemporary word and I find it being used across many disciplines. So while it probably doesn't have its origin in Daniels, for our tribe, he has used it very well and gotten a lot of traction with it.

I feel we have only to gain by reading or hearing him.

Now to be unfair but provacative, he needs a second act for his audience. This one is over.

[Deleted]

I haven't read it yet but Scott will be coming to our church in May to share about it.

[Jim Bentley]

started the intro...looks like it is gonna be a good read so I am looking forward to it when I get the chance

[A. Lucas Finch]

I finished the book this morning. It has great material in it. I listen to his sermons regularly, so I have heard a lot of it already, but it is helpful having it in print to reference easier than looking through podcasts. Scott Daniels is both the speaker and the NNU rep at my district's Ministry Team Retreat in two weeks, so I'm looking forward to hearing what he has to say to us there.

[Doug Kitchen]

Sunday school starts tomorrow. We will see how this goes. The DVDs are really good but possibly too long for our setting.

There are seven sessions. I think twice as many would be better. The material is fairly deep. in some ways the metaphor of exile may be misunderstood by the class.

A couple of good points is that the danger of the exile was not that Israel would be persecuted by the Babylonians but that they would become like the Babylonians.

In the second chapter Scott uses his tohu/Bohu/ruach to explain the concepts of separation, filling and blessing.

Anyway, I wish I had some better discussion starters prepared. I would post them here just to get us talking again. Well maybe here is one:

Are you in exile now? Expecting to go into exile? Or maybe you are back in the promised land?

Doug

[Jim Bentley]

Great questions Doug ....and for the record, I do hope it starts some conversation here - though i'm not too confident

Anyway, for me I would have to say that it depends on the day. Many days I do feel like this is exile, but there are times where it is just the wilderness. As for the promised land, is that something promised to us as ministers of the gospel? Personally, I'm not sure that there is a promised land for me (and maybe i should say - let's define "promised land"). I take more of the thought that I read in a book one time called "The Dream Giver" by Bruce Wilkinson. He talks of God putting a dream in our heart that we chase after for Him and once we get there, a new dream comes and the journey starts over.

Just a couple of quick thoughts. Gotta go now, but I'll be back.

[Susan Unger]

I have the book but have only read 2 pages of it. I heard him speak about it at GA which made me interested. I am not sure either about metaphor of Exile and the use of the word "narrative". I have to think about that one for a while.

[Doug Kitchen]

So class went really well except for the technology aspects - the dvd's are good - 2 videos/chapter. I am doing 1 chapter/ 2 weeks (at least) and will use one video/wk. It will be helpful for those who don't read the chapter.

In our discussions the exile analogy that seemed to resonate with most people was "losing control" and/or not being able to control others. I think my example of a time-out for a child compared to God giving Israel a time-out in Babylon seemed to help people keep exile in perspective. Daniels warns about taking the analogy of exile too far.

Since it was the first week of the NFL-Trump-knee-stand-sing-clap controversy, free-speech was on people's mind. Many expressed "what's this country coming too". There are quite a few who believe that they are "in exile" because nobody listens to them anymore. I reminded them that Christianity has often been its own worst enemy. And also the whole you-catch-more-flies with honey thing doesn't help us in our current time. There are quite a few who seem to take offense at every little slight.

I was talking with someone afterwards and he appreciated loss of control. He is mild-mannered and recently diagnosed with Parkinson's (fairly young ~55). His body has put him in exile.

I closed by reading Jeremiah 29 ( first 20 verses) - I think Scott D. mentioned the 70 yr part of the "plans I have for you"....I really emphasized that and working for the best for your captors.

Jim: promised land vs wilderness - I will see what the class thinks this week (if I remember to ask): "Are you in the promised land, the wilderness?" Scott has a circular chart of the cycle of Israel - there are a few other "analogous" places we can end up (time of kings, division, etc).
thanks for the discussion

Doug

[Susan Unger]

Sept 17, 2017 18:41:05 GMT -5 Doug Kitchen said:

Is anyone else using Embracing Exile (Scott Daniels)?

We purchased the whole package.  I have read most of the book but haven't started looking through the resources yet.

So far, I would highly recommend the book.

I'll be leading it during sunday school hour starting next week.

I will try to post a few of the salient points and I think some of the chapters/concepts that my class will have trouble with.

Here's one:

Scott states that we all have a narrative (handed down to us or that we choose).  I hadn't thought about that.

What was the narrative that you grew up with?

What narrative have you chosen?

Some of you may have encountered this way of thinking but it's a little new to me.  He about our narrative becoming our "liturgy" and the job of the church to reform/replace it with the liturgy.

I am probably misstating/mis-summarizing so feel free to fill me in.  I have to reread this chapter in particular to be sure I guide the discussion well.  I don't think it is original to Dr Daniels so perhaps you have read related thoughts and could share your perspective.



Doug

I don't recall there being a narrative when I was growing up, other than being "separate" from the world...but not in the redemptive way that Scott presents it. 

My current church I don't see having a narrative either unless it is two fold - the few long term Christians have a woe is me and the newer ones have a what's in it for me. So it can be a bit depressing depending on who you are talking to. 

But I see now the value of having a narrative and the right one. 

[Doug Kitchen]

Oct 12, 2017 16:22:09 GMT -5 Susan Unger said:

Sept 17, 2017 18:41:05 GMT -5 Doug Kitchen said:

Is anyone else using Embracing Exile (Scott Daniels)?

We purchased the whole package.  I have read most of the book but haven't started looking through the resources yet.

So far, I would highly recommend the book.

I'll be leading it during sunday school hour starting next week.

I will try to post a few of the salient points and I think some of the chapters/concepts that my class will have trouble with.

Here's one:

Scott states that we all have a narrative (handed down to us or that we choose).  I hadn't thought about that.

What was the narrative that you grew up with?

What narrative have you chosen?

Some of you may have encountered this way of thinking but it's a little new to me.  He about our narrative becoming our "liturgy" and the job of the church to reform/replace it with the liturgy.

I am probably misstating/mis-summarizing so feel free to fill me in.  I have to reread this chapter in particular to be sure I guide the discussion well.  I don't think it is original to Dr Daniels so perhaps you have read related thoughts and could share your perspective.



Doug

I don't recall there being a narrative when I was growing up, other than being "separate" from the world...but not in the redemptive way that Scott presents it. 

My current church I don't see having a narrative either unless it is two fold - the few long term Christians have a woe is me and the newer ones have a what's in it for me. So it can be a bit depressing depending on who you are talking to. 

But I see now the value of having a narrative and the right one. 

[Doug Kitchen]

A quick update - We used Sermon video for this chapter for the week when our pastor was away. Scott Daniels was "powerful" to quote one of our oldest members ( >> 85). For sunday school class (before church) I asked anyone who would care to, to tell their story (in 2 minutes or less x 20 adults). That worked out really well - a lot of stories with much in common, but many pretty surprising ones.

We are now up to "blessing bablyon". Contemporary christianity seems to be happier with cursing bablyon.

It is also a great chapter on "work" and its value. i.e. our work can be a blessing even when it is secular.

the oldest member (which I reference above) worked on the moon lander and his name is on a plaque on the moon.

Doug

[Susan Unger]

Dec 16, 2017 16:24:28 GMT -5 Doug Kitchen said:

the oldest member (which I reference above) worked on the moon lander and his name is on a plaque on the moon.

Doug

Cool!

[Gina Stevenson]

Dec 19, 2017 0:00:27 GMT -5 Susan Unger said:

Dec 16, 2017 16:24:28 GMT -5 Doug Kitchen said:

the oldest member (which I reference above) worked on the moon lander and his name is on a plaque on the moon.

Doug

Cool!

I second that "Cool!". 😊